| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 10 post(s) |
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate
2
   |
Posted - 2012.08.12 09:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was flying the Coercer some time.
Main problem is that CCP had done good work with Incursus and Merlin (okay Punisher is a joke) . Rifter was op in comparison to the others. Waht CCP maybe not sees is that Thrasher is actually completely op in comparison to the other dessies. Minus one low slot on Coercer will hurt but okay it is amarr, it simply has to suck. Coercer would need more CPU and Capacitor. An arty Thrasher can fire 10 mins and longer, Coercer not.
What CCP does also not see is the cost aspect. With 8 turrets you need to get minimum 4 mil ammo in a coercer that it works (4 crystals). Putting ammo for close and long range hurts much more with minimum 6 or 8m. An Arty Thrasher for fast skirmish maybe needs 0,8m in ammo and it works. Total imbalance here. TBH Coercer should even be better than the others BECAUSE the loss in ammo alone is HORRIBLY higher than in other ships and hurts much more. It should be: Better ship=higher risk and not equal ship but higher risk because of laser ammo.
I agree that Cormorant sucks and would really need mor buff. Catalyst probably too and Coercer would need more cap and cpu.
We need an end of these 20 Thrasher gangs. I would be happy to see a 20cormorant gang for example.
Actually Thrasher can do everything and is total overpowered. The other 3 dessies need more buff. Especially the cormorant.
|
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 10:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
I have to agree with Kuehnelt. Coercer has a really bad cap problem and it is not really possible to make any use in fleets with this ship. You run faster out of cap than you can imagine.
TBH Thrasher is so much overpowered in comparison ti the other dessies that I believe that only an artillery nerf can do sth.
I mean artillery is really tooooo good. Thrasher can everthing. Shortrange damage and tank monster, long range killing machine. Aditionally it is one or even the fasted destroyer. It has no weaknesses. Weird.
I will say it again: Buff the other destroyers more (coercer more cap and cpu, cormorant needs REALLY more buff, catalyst I don-Št know) and nerf artillery.
Main problem with Coercer is really the risk. No Cormorant, Catalyst or Thrasher needs to take 2.5mil isk ammunition minimum to be able to fire all weapons. Coercer for long and short range ammo at least costs minimum 5mil isk. No other dessie has such big risks.
Again: big Risk= good ship, little risk=bad ship. Thats how it should be. It wouldn-Št even be that bad if Coercer would be a litle bit op (only a little bit and not minmatar like op) because of these risks.
You want fast skirmish in a Thrasher? 0.8m in ammo is more than enough. You want fast skirmish in a coercer and be able to shoot at long and short range? You need 5mil isk in ammo minimum in cargo. That is more than 6 times the amount Thrasher needs.
And additionally with these stats a coercer can fire a minute with good skills. Thrasher can fire almost the same damage until he goes out of ammo. That is really not a good rebalancing. |
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 06:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Up to here almost nobody is happy with these changes.
The answer why is simple. It is really hard work to get the other destroyers on par with the Thrasher. Minmatars have the best weapons, speed and so on.
Especially in fw Minmatar weapons are awesome. Example? Ever tried to kill minnies plexers with amarrian ships? They are perfectly tanked versus em and heat, that means vs lasers. So it is not that easy to shoot such a fast and perfectly tanked ship versus your laser weapons.
But when a minnie wants to shoot an amarr plexer it is much easier: The amarr plexer will be armored versus rats what means against kinetic and explosive, the minnie knows it and chooses heat ammo. Simple.
Another example? Arty Thrasher is awesome. Fast lock, really good damage and almost no cap usage. Coercer can do the same but maximum 2 minutes. LOL. With these changes Coercer can do the same for two minutes.
Seriously: To get the other three destroyers on par with Thrasher there are probably only two options: Give them one slot more than Thrasher or nerf artillery. I see no other option. The Thrasher is such an overpowered killing machine in comparison to the others that it can do really everything. I know people who have flown Coercer for months and swore never to fly a minnie ship.
Until yet these people spit and laugh about Coercer and fly the Thrasher.
This Minmatar dessie is simply toooooo overpowered in comparison to the others.
I repeat that there are probably only two options to get the other destroyers on par with Thrasher:
a) nerf artillery
or
b) give cormorant and catalyst an additional low or mid slot and give the coercer REALLY more cap or also another low slot.
The cap option would be the better one because even with an additional slot Coercer will faster run out of cap as you can imagine and is useless in larger fleet fights.
Edit: I forgot to mention one inportant issue. The Coercer is BY FAR the most expensive ship of all four dessies because it has always to take minimum 5mil isk in ammo to get all guns firing. |
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 12:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Quote:
Not sure I agree with this at all.
Artillery is fine. If anything, it's worse than ACs with barrage.
Thrasher is, well, not exactly fine, but certainly not as rediculously OP as you are claiming. I've seen thrashers die to catalysts, rail corms and coercers. The coercers are usually nano/dps fit, and they beat the thrasher (if it doesn't just leave), because the only way for a thrasher to catch a speed coercer is to be shield tanked. And that makes it vulnerable to lasers.
But coercers are mostly bad and need another mid slot Big smile
Then you might explain me when Thrasher isn-Št that much overpowered why I see Thrasher fleets consisting of six up to twelve and more Thrashers every day and never ever saw a catalyst, cormorant or coercer fleet? |
Dr Sheng-Ji Yang
The Forsworn Protectorate
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 13:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Quote:first off all because balancing just started.
but also, because bittervets tend to push new players into training minmatar because there supposed to be winmatar.
the thrasher is a good and forgiving ship and when everyone tells you its the best, well lots of people end up flying the thrasher.
it certainly does not need a buff, but a mighty blow with the nerf bat would also be wrong. it will take some time to get people used to the idea that there are alternatives around.
lets just wait for this to get onto sisi and check out how it works.
Well if this gets really into sisi and then in the game I should really better train minmatar ships. And yes most of Minmatar ships ARE winmatar. Before inferno best T1 frigate, best destroyer (by far), best T1 cruiser (rupture) and best bc (Hurricane). And no let us not talk about the drake. Everybody cries nerf the drake but hurricane is many times better and I wonder why everybody only cries because of the drake.
I will stay at it: Buff the others more or nerf Thrasher for example by nerfing artillery. |
| |
|